Regression - Pedals | Blue Collar Mountain Biking

Regression - Pedals

January 14th, 2008 by Arleigh Jenkins

The more I look around on the trails blogs it seems that there is a hidden species of styling platform riders. Take Kent and Dave for example. Super endurance riders that find their favorite shoes that do NOT clip in are their preference for long distance riding.

It seems that forms of cycling like free ride and BMX have brought some higher end platform pedals to the market. Crank Brothers 50/50 and Easton Flatboy pedals are ones that instantly come to mind. More of my friends as they push the limits on their bikes either vertically or mileage base seem to be trading in their clip less pedals for higher end platforms. Maybe it is the ease of use, walk ability and wear that comes into play.

26 Responses to “Regression - Pedals”

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1 Levi on Jan 14th, 2008 at 10:06 am

This is interesting, because I don’t see myself trading in my clipless pedals anytime soon. Are we talking 100+, 200+ mile rides?

(Maybe I’ll reconsider if I’m ever riding those distances!)
2 Arleigh on Jan 14th, 2008 at 10:19 am

I think it makes sense for folks with hot spots, or ankle/knee issues. Not being confined is a very nice feature. Plus being able to wear any type of shoe/boot helps in cold weather or hike a bike situations.
3 Ralphy on Jan 14th, 2008 at 11:22 am

Well, from a bombproof perspective, flats and sneaks -can- last much longer than clipless+shoes, especially per dollar spent.

This is the cue someone who’s used their Shimano 525s for the last 30 years.
4 kerbouchaud on Jan 14th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

I currently use the Crank bro Mallets so that I can ride clipped in or out, paried with some Nike MTB shoes. These have a nice beefy tread that works well riding clipped, unclipped, or even trudging up and down hills. I even wear them when I’m doing trail work.
But….Back in the day when I used to ride Aggro BMX I swore by the Bear claws. http://www.huskybicycles.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=366-513&Category_Code=&Store_Code=hbs
After having huge chunks of meat ripped out of my shins by the little lugs on the flat platform pedals, I switched to the “claws” they’d probably rip the shit out of your shins if you ever slipped them, but I can’t recall having slipped off them even once. I don’t know if they make them for MTB but it might be worth the checking.
5 jonnyb on Jan 14th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

Kerbouchaud — right on with the bearclaws! I’ve been using Primo platforms on the do-it-all bike and, while awesome in the summer, the large platform packs up with snow/ice in the winter and they basically becoming rotating ice cubes. Found a set of old bearclaws — problem solved.
6 Gunnar on Jan 14th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

Rivendell has a good article on the subject here: http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse

I myself use BMX style platforms on my commuter through the winter. But I do like to be attached to the pedals for most off road riding. But I don’t do much (any) freeride type stuff.
7 kerbouchaud on Jan 14th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

Wow Gunnar, the idiot that wrote that artical was definately a sandle wearing bike rider. His argument about people not lifting with their upstroke was pure crap. Unless I’m mistaken, that’s what spinning is, putting positive pressure in the pedals travel throught he entire 360 degress or rotation. Try that with platforms and call me when you need some band aids. Obviously clipless is nice when you’re going up hills as he said, but even a 10 year old doesn’t need them for bunny hopping. As for the need to move your feet around while you are riding…..I can buy that for when you’re just cruising but when you are on a power trek on or off-road it’s nice to have your foot firmly planted in the “perfect” position. Clipless pedals can strain your knees a little bit, so it’s good to have a little float in there. But I’ve had much worse injuries from having my feet slip of the pedals during some power riding. As for foot flex, you feet will definately flex while riding unless you are using a rigid shoe. the problem is that it flexes across the plantar fascia. repetitive flexing of this can lead to Plantar Fasciaits which I can personally attest to being an extremely painful and debilitating condition.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that everyone should wear clipless pedals, some folks just don’t like them or feel safe on them, and that’s cool, but to say that the benefits of clipless pedals are a myth is just plain ignorant. I guess the guy that wrote that artical has just never taken it to the max, or may just be a sissy rider.
8 Quinn on Jan 14th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

A disabled persons (me) thoughts on pedals

I have Spina bifida, my left leg is much weaker than my right leg, and it is about an inch shorter.

Road bike- clipless, especially commuting, I keep my left foot clipped in, it keeps my foot attched, not slipping off the pedal and provides the extra power tansfer to get through the yellow lights.

Mountain bike(29er)- clipless, way to easy for my feet to slip off. Also power trans. etc from above.

Park/urban(ss 26er)- Flat pedal, Urban- IM in Cruise mode, Park- I don’t “go Big”, I use the bike to gain balance and strength and improve my tech skills
.o0(flatland bmx, on dirt)
though I would like to find a pair of rectangular “shin eaters”, I am using Felt Back-Pedals (typical CNC’d flat pedal)
amd the just aren’t grippy enough.

BTW, the only way I can use clipless is with the help of Knee Savers, spindle extensions.
9 Choke on Jan 14th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

I’ve considered getting a dedicated commuter cruiser since I only travel 4 miles to work and would use platforms on it. I don’t think I’m mentally capable of riding my 29er without clipless pedals.
10 fixedgear on Jan 14th, 2008 at 7:02 pm

I’m a Look guy on road bikes and SPD on MTB, tandem and tour, but yeah. I’ve met several people who have ridden the brevet series (200K, 300K, 400K, 600K, 1200K) on platform pedals with sneakers. The ‘efficiency’ and cetera of clipless systems have been somewhat oversold IMHO, but I like my Sidis. Eye-talians know how to make shoes.
11 Aaron on Jan 14th, 2008 at 8:26 pm

It was mentioned that flat BMX pedals were good for people with ankle/knee issues. In my experience, this is completely wrong! Anyone who has ridden on BMX style flat pedals with a good flat soled shoe can tell you that your foot is stuck to that pedal and the only way to rotate it is to pick up your foot off the pedal and replant it. I rode flat pedals on my all mountain/freeride bike for six months and hated the fact that I couldn’t rotate my heels while climbing. As someone who used to do cleat/pedal fit kits for riders at several bike shops, I can tell you that MOST riders (including myself) have a small amount of heel “rotation” in their pedaling stroke. A good clipless pedal with float will allow this rotation, a flat BMX style pedal will not. So the reality is…a properly aligned clipless pedal is actually BETTER than a BMX pedal for people with ankle/knee issues than a flat pedal.

I personally like platform clipless style pedals (Crank Bros Mallet is my choice)…best of both worlds
12 Quinn on Jan 14th, 2008 at 8:46 pm

I would have to agree with Aaron, although I would have to add, there maybe to much movement as well, leaving a rider guessing where their foot is on the pedal, possibly on the edge, where a good hard crank will most like make a foot slip.

Personally with the Knee Savers and M520s, I have been much more comfortable, and secure in knowing where my foot is, Especially after having a knee surgery due to a wreck from my foot slipping off a flat pedal.
13 Arleigh on Jan 14th, 2008 at 8:49 pm

“It was mentioned that flat BMX pedals were good for people with ankle/knee issues. In my experience, this is completely wrong! ”

I can see where you are coming from but saying something is completely wrong… is well COMPLETELY wrong.

Depending on your injury, issue or handicap you might need infinite float that a basic platform with no grip will give you. Or a pedal that allows you no float, but the fact you can adjust on the dead spot of your pedal stroke. Having dealt with many fits over the years, injuries of my own and customers and just one off body structures I can say that what is best for me won’t be best for the next person.

Cycling footwear and pedals have come a long way, but I don’t think anything will ever replace a strong, well supported pair of shoes and a well built basic pedal.
14 Aaron on Jan 14th, 2008 at 8:55 pm

“Depending on your injury, issue or handicap you might need infinite float that a basic platform with no grip will give you”

A platform pedal with no grip? That sounds like it would create more injuries than it might prevent from your foot slipping off. A free-float pedal (such as Speedplay or Beebop) essentially provides “infinite float” whilst still having your foot attached to the pedal…much safer

completely wrong might have been too strong…99% wrong, especially considering the above argument is more like it
15 Arleigh on Jan 14th, 2008 at 9:06 pm

Aaron - I have seen more knee injuries due to infinite amount of float and cartilage being ground away with every rotation of the pedal.

As for the basic platform with no grip - it was giving an example that depending what your problem might be you might need a normal pedal with no grip. Take a hybrid pedal for instance.

I’m not defending those who ride with platforms, but instead saying that there are infinite amounts of reasons someone might chose a SPD pedal over a platform or a Egg Beater over a Time ATAC.

Saying someone is completely wrong because of their needs/wants, or even 99.9% wrong not knowing their fitting issue, health issue or form of riding is a very bad way for someone that once did fitting for bike shops to approach the situation. Have an open mind, be willing to read others opinions and maybe even try them. Kent Peterson has ridden more miles than most the readers of this site combined. Yes he’s a bit cooky but maybe his opinion is valid?
16 Quinn on Jan 14th, 2008 at 9:08 pm

Arleigh,

I agree clipless is not for every however “infanant float” is exactly how a riders foot ends up Off the pedal. A varying degree of limited float is what most riders are looking for/need. medical issues or not.
17 Slowerthensnot (Dave Nice) on Jan 14th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

Well I love them partly because I have had any knee issues sence starting to use them. Much ezer for me to find shoes i like that aren’t clown cycling shoes…

Riding a bit over 19,000 miles last year on the mt. fixie I’ve found them to be a very important bit of my setup.
18 Kristin on Jan 14th, 2008 at 9:28 pm

coming from a downhill racer I seem to use both platform and clipless. I have yet to notice a problem in my knees or legs….yet. I would rather ride flats anyday of the week. If I need to bail, I dont want my bike falling on top of me causing more damage just because Im connected. When Im riding I love doing no footers and can cans. You have to take in all aspects of riding, not just the riding you do. BMX, XC, Freeride, Downhill, Touring, Cyclocross, road, comfort….if you said clipless to the majority of poeple who ride bikes, they would look at you like you had 10 heads. Its not the equipment that makes the ride…its the rider that makes themself. Lance Armstrong would kick ass just ass much on a Walmart bike (or atleast try her hardest) as a Trek. Stpo Bitching…everyone rides different…who cares as long as people are riding.

PS…they arent scars…battle wounds
19 Kent Peterson on Jan 14th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

I’m not speaking for anybody but me, but I’m not missing pulling up. When I rode the GDR (2500 miles in 22 days and change) and when I won the San Francisco to Portland Raid-Californie I did so with Power Grip pedals. For distance riding I value not just float but the ability to micro-adjust for and aft. You don’t get that with clipless pedals.

I rode over 10,000 miles last year on platform pedals with no additional retention, just grippy shoes (Keens) and that works fine for me. If clipless work fine for you, or toeclips, or Power Grips or whatever, I’ve got no problem with that either.

Keep ‘em rolling, no matter how you turn the pedals around.

Kent “Mountain Turtle” Peterson
Issaquah WA USA
20 kerbouchaud on Jan 15th, 2008 at 10:01 am

During my rant about the ignorance of the posted artical I did fail to mention that not every style of riding can benefit from clipless. I wouldn’t think about trying to use them on downhill or free ride trails, and often will swap them to platforms on trails that I am not familiar with providing that I know there aren’t too many heavy climbs. I’d rather walk up a hill than get wadded up in a pile on the other side. For my home trails though, clipless works best for me. At the same time one of my riding buddies who takes it to the max wherever he rides wouldn’t be caught dead with clipless as he just tries to much crazy crap where being clipped in would be a liability.
Like Kent said, just keep the wheels turning regardless of what kind of pedals you use.
21 JoelGuelph on Jan 15th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

I think one thing that should be pointed out is that their are many platform pedals that fall between extremely sticky/hard to adjust foot position and no grip/easy to slip off. Many pedals have adjustable/replaceable pins that can be adjusted or replaced with shorter or longer pins. The length and sharpness of the pins has a huge effect on how grippy the pedals are.

Personally, I ride flats on my commuter so I don’t have to deal with my clipless shoes at work, I don’t have to worry about swapping them off my MTB on a daily basis, and I can handle the icy patches a lot more easily. Flats on my FR/jumper and BMX, clipless on my XC and road bikes. I briefly used clipless for racing 4X and BMX, but the power advantage wasn’t worth it compared to the ability to take a foot off when bumping elbows.
22 Mathew on Jan 17th, 2008 at 8:39 am

Time ATAC - don’t settle for less!

I ride my ATACs with cleated shoes but nowadays I never clip in. Instead I just use the cleats to locate my feet on the pedals properly, with the ball of the foot above the spindle. In that way I get maximal ankle movement, with no feelings of being trapped and no need to reposition the feet.
If I had to ride with SPD or any other cleat system I doubt I would be able to ride ‘clipless yet always unclipped’ so easily. The Time ATAC pedal design has better patents than the rest - get them if you want the best of clip/unclipped worlds.

I have tried riding those stupid BMX-style ‘flat’ pedals and they feel horrible. Your feet are glued to the pedals in a fixed position with no float. You also have to wear shin protectors with them, unless gouged shins are really desired. They also weigh a tonne and tend not to have reflectors.

As for pulling on the upstroke - it depends on your ride, there are tough ‘grades’ in the UK where a little help is most useful, much like 4×4 in a car, and we all know how much that is *really* needed. As for spinning, isn’t that what planet-trashing, 4×4 owning cowards do in the gym? Or do primadonna roadies do it too?
If I remember correctly, Lance pedalled with a very high cadence, he did not ’spin’.
23 Ralphy on Jan 17th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

“If I remember correctly, Lance pedalled with a very high cadence, he did not ’spin’.”

Uh, what’s the difference?
24 Jeff Moser on Jan 19th, 2008 at 2:11 am

The great pedal debate is kind of like the great fork and spoon debate. I just use the right tool for the job. When I eat soup, I use my spoon. Spaghetti, my fork.

Egg Beaters for mountain, road, BMX racing. Flats for cruisers, playing around on my dirt jumper, or other times when i don’t want to wear cycling shoes.

I enjoy both!
25 cocheese on Feb 25th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

I have bunk knees (esp the left) and I’m about at my wit’s end dealing with it. I got the Spec’y shoes with inserts, SPD pedals, and the full pro bike fit…helped but did not get to the root of the issue. Consequesntly, I just had knee surgery for two tears and a bad plica. After I recover, I’m going to try some of your suggestions. WTB’s with Bruce Gordon Ti toe holders, Powergrips, straight DH-style flats…I’ll try anything short of a red hot poker in the ear!
26 Storage Northwich on Nov 21st, 2010 at 8:55 pm

Nice post, keep up the excellent work

Regression - Pedals

26 Responses to “Regression - Pedals”

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