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Boutique vs Big Box
November 2nd, 2007 by Arleigh JenkinsMany of my posts are brought on from a posts on MTBR or reading someones blog. Almost daily I read the argument of riding a big box bike vs riding a boutique higher end bike.
Let’s start off with the biggest bike suppliers in the US. Giant and Trek both get a bad rap because a good number of their bikes are made in China and they make that $280 cheap mountain bike that I wouldn’t be found dead going down an off road trail. What most folks forget is they also make high end mountain bikes that are raced in the Olympics, or World Championships. Adam Craig, who is sponsored by Giant as a pro rider, recently won the Single Speed World Championships on a Giant. Chris Eatough, who is sponsored by Trek, sets marathon endurance records on a Trek. Yes, these people are paid to ride their bikes - to ride the “big box” bikes. That is their job.
A bike that can take a 100 miles of off road abuse by a pro rider at top speeds is saying something. Giant and Trek are on top of the list of pushing the technology envelope. Last year Gary Fisher came out with the Hi Fi which pushed how a 4.5 inch travel bike should work. This year Fisher came out with a 23 lb carbon Hi Fi. 23 pounds!!!
I know that Yeti, Turner, Titus and Santa Cruz all make a great bike. Personally, I own a Yeti 575 which I love greatly. Its a bit of over kill for around Charlotte but great for the mountains of Pisgah. Yeti has a 5 year limited frame warranty for the original owner. Which means if I own my bike in 8 years and it forms a crack…. I’m screwed. I’ve seen die hard Santa Cruz customers let down because they have to wait 6 months for a swing arm (that ended up not even being painted to match.)
Why all this love for the “big box bikes?” They are good bikes that get a bad rap because they try new things or spread themselves across price points. Cannondale is dubbed the Crack & Fail because they were trying to push the envelope with their over sized aluminum tubes. From what I understand any bike that had a crack was warrantied. Gary Fisher had a Rig that had an issue with the seat tube and top tube junction forming a crack. Gary Fisher warrantied anyone and will continue to do so for life of the original owner. For ‘08 they came out with a new and improved Rig from all the stuff they learned.
Maybe the company is a bit larger than that boutique bike you drool over in the magazines. Maybe you want to be different from all the other Trek owners on the trail.
I guess all I’m trying to get to is that next time you are in the market for a high end bike don’t glare at that big box from a distance - it might be what you are looking for.
The big box companies just seem to have more issues sometimes because they have more bikes out on the trail so there is an increased chance for failure. I would bet that if any of the smaller companies moved the numbers of bikes Giant or Trek do they would have very similar percentages of issues.
This debate reminds me of the leg shaving debate.
Shaving your legs is practical because it makes it easier to deal with road rash. However, the main reason to do it is so your legs look nice and shiny in spandex.
The “practical” reason for buying a boutique brand seems to be for better quality, when most of the time the real reason to say “I have this expensive hard to find bike, so I’m better than you.” Which of course leads to bad mouthing big brands, because that will further the cause of boutique brands.
Not exactly the same debate, but I hope you see what I mean
from what i hear, up until 2008, trek had the worst line up of any mtb maker. this is according to mainstream reviews, i’ve never personally ridden them.
the reason why i dislike giant bikes is because they are U-G-L-Y. seriously, like the only color scheme they have is puke green and yellow matched with silver.
an example of big box done right is specialized. even the lowly hard rock is a common sight on the trails because instead of having like 25 mm stanchions and crappy geometry, they are spec’d properly for their price. also, their high end bikes are on the bleeding edge of technology.
kona is also another good manufacturer that still reaches out to the low end. they are imho, the best bang for your buck. their freeride team is unbeatable and they ride $1000 bikes.
I trust Big Box bikes more, do to quality Control, and the number of bikes produced,
With the Boutique bikes, a buyer may not know a builders back ground, or their level of QC, and they probably don’t make enough frame to really develop a standard of quality, unless they have been around a long time, which by that time they become Big Box.
This reminds me of when the Hyundai car company came out with there 100,000 mile/10 yr warranty, in 2000, A person has to wonder, Why such a big warranty? Are the cars That crappy?
a person should be able to buy a bike, and with a good level of care, they should not have to worry about the frame for, 10, 15 years.
Bradley -
That is a very good point about more products means more chances to have issues. If you were to have a bad bike 1 out of 200, and only made 200 - that’s 1. Now if you made 20,000 that’s 1,000.
Thanks for that!
Levi -
it’s why someone buys a Lexus over a Toyota. Well kind of.
I also want to say that I’m not saying Yeti, Turner or any of those boutique bikes don’t have their place. Hell Turner and Maverick have pushed the envelope on suspension technology.
I agree with you Quinn, quality control can sometimes be a big problem with “boutique” bikes…for instance I have a friend who races for santa cruz, and a couple years ago when they sent him his super light he had to put the drop outs in a vise to get the wheel to fit right. Not to say that this is common, but it’s a shame to need to do that to such a nice bike…and with the overseas argument in the original post, boutique manufacturers such as maverick, santa cruz, and yeti all have bikes made over seas…at least with the big box companies (i.e. trek, giant, and specialized) they have the money and resources to keep a close eye on what happens across the ocean…now I’m not trying to discount boutique bikes, i happen to own one and enjoy it just as much as my big box bike, I’m just saying you shouldn’t judge a bike by how “corporate” the company is, after all it’s the ride that counts…
Is it me or is this a mountain bike version of the Apple (boutique) VS. Microsoft (big box) debate? I own a Giant but I’m drooling over some of the new Specialized bikes. In addition to Specialized, I’m looking at Turner, Transition, Santa Cruz, and maybe a locally built custom for my next ride in spring 08.
Some what. I own both an Apple and a couple PC’s. I owned the Apple before they were cool, and I was a major in graphic design.
I see where you are coming from about the argument….
I don’t think anyone can say they have Not longed for a boutique bike, Hell I live walking distance from Della Santa, Vanilla and Oswald are pure bike porn, but over all I trust big box more.
Bradley -
That is a very good point about more products means more chances to have issues. If you were to have a bad bike 1 out of 200, and only made 200 - that’s 1. Now if you made 20,000 that’s 1,000.
Thanks for that!
Umm, that’s 100; but I get your point.
Yeh - I have no math skills
Cannondale (Crack & Fail) was mentioned for their warranty. I own two Cannondale frames, one that’s cracked, one that will crack. Since I am not the original owner of the frame, I DO NOT get a free replacement frame. The Cannondale company representative looked my frame over at a shop and said they would give me a frame at a greatly reduced price though. This is probably why I see so many new Cannondale frames on Ebay. My Gary Fisher frame cracked too and I’m not the original owner of that frame–No warranty there either. Guess I should start buying new bikes not used bikes?
Richard-
If you knew about the crack-and-fail, reputation, why did you buy the frames/bikes, especially second-hand ?
I had never heard the term, “Crack and Fail” until I read this post nor was I aware of the frame cracking propensity of Cannondale. My limited experience so far is that all oversized tube aluminum frames eventually crack. The second C-dale frame was $79 off Ebay–I already had EVERYTHING else I needed. If I went with another frame manufacterer, I’d have to invest in a new fork. Going with the Cannondale, I already had the headshok fork, no extra money out of pocket–Important to blue-collar riders.
For the record, if / when this frame goes, I’ll be looking at a brand new Big Box bike, like a Specialized. However, reading about the Trek Fuel Ex 5.5 and the features at that price point is pretty exciting too.
Maybe I’ll purchase the greatly reduced frame from Cannondale, put it up on Ebay, and use the proceeds with whatever is left in the piggy bank to go towards the Big Box Bike.
One interesting thing that I forgot to mention is aluminum has a life span. I’m not a scientist so I can’t explain it exactly, but I know there is a life span - if this causes failure I’m not sure but it might add to it.
Arleigh-
I am not a scientist either, but I have been through auto mechanic school, It has to do with a mix of welding technique, whether its 69XX, 7001, 7005 OR 4031(steel) etc, and Buttingsingle, double or triple), a/o which tubes are butted.
My 2 cents
I think it’s about what an individual finds to be important when they are making a purchase on something so important in their life. For me, big box bikes are very nice quality, well designed machines, but I would never own one. I appreciate the energy and passion a small builder puts into their product, plain and simple. It makes the product something special. Boutique bikes are made by people who share the love for the sport and the lifestyle, not someone who wouldn’t care if they are assembling HVAC units or cheap furniture, just as long at they get a paycheck from the factory.
Roger -
My original debate wasn’t over custom vs big box, but instead the boutique that might be getting their bikes built else where (not in house.)
I’m glad you brought the point of small builders. I have a post that I have started multiple times and haven’t really been able to find it. Being this is a “blue collar” site there are many folks that would consider going through a custom builder crazy. Between here and Bike Lab my next argument will be Boutique vs Custom.
Arliegh,
If the bikes are not built in-house, they are not Boutique, no matter the $
Hi Arleigh -
I hear ya. Thanks for the reply.
I’ll look out for that one.
Happy riding. Time for the lights!
Most of the guys that I have seen that own boutique bikes spend a lot of time standing around in their spandex and talking about stuff, they own all of the latest and greatest gadgets and cycling gear and speak the lingo like they wrote it or something, but….they rarely rack up the miles on the trail. Some of them will even stand around and talk with their fancy bike and then hop on a beater for the trail ride. Maybe that’s why boutique bike last longer, they get ridden a lot less.? Hell, I wouldn’t take a $5,000 dollar bike out on the trails either
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